Party XP Changes

This was a question we got on the previous post and I felt the answer deserved it’s own post. We’ve made a few changes to the way XP works that will greatly impact how players may choose to play. We want to encourage players to play the game together and felt the old system really discouraged that. I’ll start by explaining how the XP system used to work, then explain our changes and why we made each one.

 

First off, the game determines what percentage of an monster’s XP you or your party earned based off something called “Hate”. You earn hate by hitting a monster first, or by doing damage to it. When you think of “pulling” a monster off someone, it’s because you reached the top of it’s “hate” list. The game adds up all the hate earned by party members and their pets, then uses it to get a percentage of the monsters XP (if they party killed it alone it’s 100%). The game then calculated a “party level” by taking the square of each party member’s level. It then compares the square of each person to the sum total to get their “cut” of the XP. Here are some examples:

Two level 50’s party together. They kill a monster worth 100xp. Their party level is (50^2) + (50^2) = 5000. It compares each person’s level squared to that 5000 total. (50^2)/5000 = .5. So they both end up getting 100xp*.5 = 50xp. This becomes 58xp after bonuses are added below.

A level 10 parties with a level 99. They kill a monster worth 100xp. Their party level is (10^2) + (99^2) = 9901. The game compares each person’s level squared to the 9901 total. (10^2)/9901=.01 while (99^2)/9901=.99. As a result, the level 10 gets 100*.01=1XP while the level 99 gets 100*.99=99XP.

The code also checks to see if your party leader is a prince. If it is, you get a 6% xp bonus. You also get a 4% bonus per party member. Ultimately this results in max bonus of 36%, but even if you assume that party consists of 8 players who are identical levels and a royal, they are only earning 48.5% due to the group splitting penalty above [(50^2)/(50^2)*8=.125 then add .36]. You also take a penalty to XP based off the hate generated by your own pets, however you do not that that penalty from OTHER people’s pets who’s percentage of hate generated is simply added to the overall party hate pool used to calculate XP earned.

 

So here’s what we’ve changed:

  • Everyone earns the percent of XP the PARTY earned, regardless of level or number of members. There is no splitting of earned XP.
  • For every member in the party you earn 2.5% more XP. All party members MUST be at least level 50 or all bonuses are canceled out.
  • Having a prince/princess in the party adds an additional 5% and they do not need to be the party leader. Only one royal counts, doesn’t stack with multiple royals.
  • Summons no longer reduce your earned XP.
  • Pets no longer reduce your earned XP by a dynamic amount based on their damage. Instead pets will have a static penalty to only your XP (small). Additionally, pets will gain some XP simply by being present, not just what they earn via dealing damage. Pet levels are being rebalanced

First lets revisit that first example:

Two level 50’s party together (not royals).  They kill a monster worth 100xp. Their party level is irrelevant. They both earn 100xp + an additional 5% for being a group of two for a total of 105xp.

Here’s a best case scenario comparing the old system on an 8x XP server and the new one on our 4x XP server:

[old system] A party of 8 identical level players hunts (leader is a royal). They kill a strong monster worth 5000xp. They each earn 5000xp *8x rate*.125% penalty for level/party size + 32% for party size + 6% for having a royal leader for a total of 6900xp.

[new system] A party of 8 friends of various levels hunts (one is a royal). They kill a strong monster worth 5000xp. They each earn 5000xp *4x rate*+ 20% for party size + 5% for having a royal for a total of 25000xp.

Now, those numbers are very different, but it’s important to take them in the following context;

A solo player on an 8x server with the old rules killing a monster worth 5000xp earns 40000xp. He earns only 6900 when he does it with 7 friends. He gets 17.25% of what he could have earned alone, so they need to kill monsters just under 6x as fast in order to achieve what they could alone. This can be extremely difficult depending on the spawn rates of the area, strength of players, or difficulty of content.

A solo player on a 4x server with the new rules killing a monster worth 5000xp earns 20000xp. He earns 25000xp if he goes with a party of 8. He essentially gets his bonus 25% plus whatever increased kill rate they achieve. There is no scenario where hunting with a friend isn’t absolutely advantageous.

 

We want people to be encouraged to hunt together and try to take on more difficult hunting grounds. Many places like 81+ and 91+ toi offer difficult, high HP monsters that also give a LOT of XP now. These are places where 8 players hunting together can not only find exciting loot but also earn great XP. Each individual bonus is small enough that you shouldn’t feel like hunting is a waste of time on your own, but you should also feel like you see the benefit with each party member you add.

 

As always, things are subject to change. These bonus XP rates were based off the old system but will need testing to see how they feel. I’ll discuss the summon/pet changes in more detail in a later post, but I felt that specific info was relevant to the topic today. I hope you guys found this interesting and that everyone is doing well! Please ask any questions in the comments.

-Myth

Comments
How about Lineage Reborn? Or maybe “Evolution”
I don't care how exp is done as long as its the same for everyone. All I…
Just a quick aside to explain some of the thought process behind these changes. This started as a discussion between…
Just like the old system, the new one takes into account proximity. Being in a party and having someone in…
On an important note, the system need to be able to distinguish between members in the same map or in…
And to further balance between solo and group hunting, make high lvl mops worth significantly more XP. So that when…
Agree with the idea that XP split in group hunt shouldn’t be 100% between members + bonus. There…
I thought it was cool to have some areas you hav to hunt in groups, like to farm karma only.…
I personally like the changes and look forward to finally play with other people when i feel like it, for…
I mean .0075-.0080 instead of .075-.080 for a Fire Warrior, forgot that 2nd zero.

46 thoughts on “Party XP Changes

  1. Dinin and so many more says:

    Hmm so hunting with my de + mage married combo now you want me to add another char as the royal for their pledge to the party. Would not be able to control it just be there for the exp bonus and I guess I could cast the royal buffs now and then. Would be worth it for sure.

    • If someone wants to go through the effort of multiboxing just for the static XP bonus I am not really concerned. The 12.5% xp boost you would get is going to be vastly out done by groups of players actually hunting together since they will kill far more monsters more quickly.

  2. Dinin and so many more says:

    Not like I am not aware an actual group would outpace me in exp. Let them, I am not in it for anything but my own enjoyment. Tried the group thing, did not really work, too much drama, too many issues and clash of personalities.

  3. Jimbo says:

    Definitely a game changer. I’m mostly a solo player, but this makes it much more likely that I’ll group up sometimes.

  4. xchaox says:

    “A solo player on a 4x server with the new rules killing a monster worth 5000xp earns 20000xp. He earns 25000xp if he goes with a party of 8. He essentially gets his bonus 25% plus whatever increased kill rate they achieve. There is no scenario where hunting with a friend isn’t absolutely advantageous.”

    Each member of the group gets 2500xp or that number is divided by 8?

    • Each member of the 8 person group gets 25000xp, 5000xp MORE than they would have received if they were hunting alone. Hunting in a group is without question superior to hunting alone in terms of XP efficiency. That was our goal with this change. The XP rate of the server is lower than a lot of other private servers, but this change compensates for it significantly. If you group hunt with 8 people every single night you will probably level faster on our 4x server than a solo hunter did on an 8x server.

      I never want a scenario where someone asks if anyone wants to hunt and nobody responds due to the fact that group hunting is inherently less efficient. Instead, choosing to play the game with that person should benefit both people.

  5. Intron says:

    Hell yeah, I’ll rock a royal and keep the party pumped up. Sounds like another neat feature that will make royals a little more useful too.

  6. xchaox says:

    I love that this is promoting team play, but i feel it went a bit to far making solo lvling no longer worth while. Not my call but id give just a small advantage to team play.
    Along with this, is it possible to implement random drops to the group instead of the person killing the monster? That would make distribution of goods easier then trying to divide it up at end of hunt. Some might get lucky and get the good drop but it was a fair chance. Maybe take option for pets or summon to accept drops along with that so no cheating.

    • While I doubt we will change the core concept, these numbers are subject to change based on player feedback during Beta. If we find a lot of people dislike the change we will adjust it. Just keep in mind, the moment something is no longer the “most efficient” way of doing something people will complain that there is no point. The advantages of leveling alone are not having to deal with other people, loot splitting, etc. Also, in response to drops, yes the game already has a system to distribute items randomly. We also are considering either adding a way to record how much adena was earned in a hunt, or possibly split it automatically. The first one would be something like this: You type -startadena, the game looks up how much adena each party member has and stores that value (but doesn’t actually tell you how much they have). You hunt for an hour, then type -endadena, it looks at he current adena values for each party member, subtracts their starting amount, and displays the difference for each party member in party chat, as well as the average per party member. This is easy to implement, but we may be able to just make those commands start/stop splitting adena drops between all party members automatically. These are not a priority right now so we will have to wait and see.

  7. xchaox says:

    (I need break this post up because its not letting me send my full comment)
    Id really like to protest this exp rule. I for one like to solo a lot as well as another friend of mine that will be playing on this server. In the current situation solo play is basically worthless. (Even with out the group bonus’s)

    • xchaox says:

      solo: you kill a master you get 100 exp
      2 people: kill on average twice as fast so you kill 1 monster each, you both get
      200 exp, which is total exp 400.
      3 people-8 people: the speed may slow down if there lacks enough spawn for the whole group but will likely be up to 600%-800% more exp

      every player added will multiply the exp gained as long as you kill that much faster. This makes hunting in a part of 8 lets say 800% more beneficial then solo.

    • xchaox says:

      Wouldnt it makes more sense to make the total gain lets say 10%-50% more beneficial for a group of 8 making group hunting a better idea but not needed.

      Those that dont have a full clan on will be forced to group with others. The clan vs clan aspect will go away as people will try to stay friendly with people outside of their group. This makes for a friendly happy land, but its not really what we’ve come to know as lineage.

      If you just added the group bonus to get the total party exp, then divided that total between equal between the party that would be more balanced system. The extra 25% exp would be to balance for lack of spawn for the full party.

      Does anyone else feel they want to keep solo play a valid option?

      • Intron says:

        Where are you getting those numbers from? It says every member grants an additional 2.5%xp for the group, with a single royal granting 5%. 100xp with a 2.5% addition is only 102.5xp. Each player would get 102.5xp. The maximum bonus you could get would be 25% with a full party and a royal. Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but that’s what I got out of the post.

        • xchaox says:

          After asking to confirm because i wasnt sure myself,
          “Each member of the 8 person group gets 25000xp, 5000xp MORE than they would have received if they were hunting alone. ”
          If every member of the group got full experience from each monster….
          the new formula doesnt have the “.125% penalty for level/party size”

        • xchaox says:

          you need to take that 102.5 and multiply it by the rate at which the group kills monsters. With 2 players I can make a rough assumption that the kill rate would double, depending on spawn rates.

          • GMLegends says:

            Kill rate does not double when you add a second person. That is a common misconception. Spawn rates also play a factor. If you have a party of 8 people, you are not going to come anywhere close to killing 8x the monsters a solo player would. Take a mage for an example AOE farming.

  8. Dinin and so many more says:

    I usually duo with my heal slave, buff slave, who at times becomes the main damage dealer when it is on a huge hp regen boss when my de has hate aggro. I will use the elemental spell it is weakest to and nuke like hell until I have to get back to keeping my de alive. Now I will add a 3rd member to their party, a royal for the static xp bonus and occasional party buff. I call this my solo play and I like it. I often play on non prime time US, as I am from the EU and last server I was often the only one online or one of the few online. This lets me kill most of the non full party needed main land bosses, plenty exciting for me.

    • xchaox says:

      I dont think your grasping the rate of leveling a group can do in this new system.

      “The 12.5% xp boost you would get is going to be vastly out done by groups of players actually hunting together since they will kill far more monsters more quickly.”

    • Just FYI, Keep in mind all bosses on our server are significantly stronger, not just the new content. HP regen rates are a bit higher, max HP is a lot higher, and some have better damage output. Not saying people won’t find a way to solo everything since they always do, but keep it in mind before engaging “familiar” bosses.

  9. Dinin and so many more says:

    XCHAOSX I do grasp it as I told Myth, I am were aware that an actually group can out exp me in less time easy. However that is what they seem to like, groups of players exp together to reach the levels needed to do the uber bosses. Unless some of the people I can group with from the old server comes to this server I will like never reach the level needed to duo one of them, if you even can do that. So be it.. I reached lvl 72 on de and 66 on the mage on the last server..could likely have reached more of I did not have 14 other projects like 62 int elf, 68 knight, and many many in their 50’s. I only got to kill dragons with the pledge I was in and do other tough bosses outside of what I could duo myself. That is how the game is, and why pledges exist.

  10. mike says:

    GM, any sort of time-frame on when server will be up? Are funds the issue? If we can help get a base server going in any way let us know!

    You have a lot of eager followers.

    • GMLegends says:

      Money is no factor. Server is online and in the cloud. Has been for over a year. But its only available to Myth and I as we develop and test. (Just looked..holy crap 483 days
      since the server came online…we need to hurry up) *tongue in cheek* We are working to the best of our ability and itll be up when its up.

  11. Nemato says:

    Hey I just wanted to throw my 2 cent here because I feel kind of strongly about this post.

    First of all, I am so happy that you are buffing the party system because we all know the Live server rules penalized party hunting too much and it was just too inefficient vs. solo power leveling.

    I think this game is more fun when played with other people and this is the right direction you are taking with the server.

    That being said, the change you are implementing is WAY too drastic.

    Example 1 (Live server)
    If 8 players (same level chars) killed a monster that would normally grant 100 exp, they split the exp, plus some bonus exp. For the sake of making a simplified point, let’s ignore the bonus exp because it’s really not that much. So each player ends up with 12.5 exp.

    Example 2(This server)
    Same scenario, and each player ends up with 100 exp. But wait, bonus exp, and actually everyone gets 125 exp. But wait, the server will have higher spawn rate than Live server, so people hunting in groups will actually kill more monster per time. So let’s say everyone of the 8 players in the party are equally strong, and each player on their own would kill this 100 exp monster in 10 seconds. But now your total damage input is 8 times that. POTENTIALLY, you are killing 8 monsters in the same time as a solo player. Now, due to spawn issues, this is not realistic. But with the increased spawn rate of this server, it will definitely benefit party players who are killing monsters faster. So let’s say they kill 3 monsters in 10 seconds instead of 1 monster in 10 seconds (again, limited by spawn rate. If not limited, they will be killing 8 monsters in 10 seconds since 8 times the damage, right?)

    125*3= 375 exp

    So each player in the party will be getting 375 exp per 10 seconds, versus 100 exp per 10 seconds for a solo player

    Now compare that to the Live server (limited spawn rate so cannot take advantage of 8 times damage input), each player is getting 12.5 exp.

    375 exp vs 12.5 exp???

    Seems too much sir.

  12. xchaox says:

    BTW GM’s, you guys put all the effort into this and im going to enjoy it either way. One of the pros i thought about is no one race has a huge lvl advantage as its team experience.

    Thanks for you guys hard work and i cant wait to play

  13. Dinin and so many more says:

    Oh well I will see if I am able to kill bosses with my solo team, if not then I guess it is the end for me.

  14. RegressPuppy says:

    Without seeing it in action, it seems extreme. I can see this being a very good change, but I do think that making you get more exp per mob in a party than you do solo is wrong. For example, on 1x rates a Fire Warrior gives you .0025, so on 4x it gives .0100. When in an 8man group, you get next to nothing now but afterwards you would get more than the .01 for every person?

    I don’t feel that you should make MORE exp in an 8man party than you get solo per monster. IMO it should be .0100 solo and with your changes it should be maybe .075-.080 instead. There should be benefits to hunting solo outside of hunting for drops you don’t want to share. I’ve already thought of some ways to maximize leveling based on your current system and I hope that it changes. Although it would be cool to see some areas get used more often due to this.

    At the end of the day, we have to see what it looks like for real before we start hootin and hollerin over it and we will likely still end up playing even if it stays the same.

    • RegressPuppy says:

      Also, posting monster exp numbers vs actual % numbers makes things seem a little more extreme than they actually are. Using my Fire Warrior example, you would get .0125 instead of .0100 by being in an 8man group. Now, if you want to sit there and take an 8 man group with you everywhere you go, that is your call, but I still think it should cap out around 80% of your solo exp instead of 125%.

  15. Skeleton says:

    I personally like the changes and look forward to finally play with other people when i feel like it, for so long I couldn’t hunt with friends because it was just flat out worse, of course the number will need some testing to see if its too much but i like the direction.

  16. xchaox says:

    I thought it was cool to have some areas you hav to hunt in groups, like to farm karma only. So you can get your solo grind in, then when team comes on y ou can group for the karma hunt.

    That would create some nice team pvp fighting over the ToS areas

  17. JC says:

    Agree with the idea that XP split in group hunt shouldn’t be 100% between members + bonus.
    There should still be value in solo hunt, IMO group hunt XP should be like the original lineage with adjusted bonuses, like each member +20% to 30% XP bonus. This encourages group hunt, cuz hunting in group is more fun, and it doesn’t take away the solo huntings.

    • JC says:

      And to further balance between solo and group hunting, make high lvl mops worth significantly more XP. So that when there’s not much players online, one can solo hunt easier maps like DV or FV, and when there are enough players to form a group they can group hunt harder places like 81f+ TOI.
      This way players that favors solo hunt won’t fall behind those that always form 6+ players group too much.
      Additionally, I propose to increase amount of Adena drop when in a group. For ex, when a monster was to give out 100 adena, system can somehow give a little bonus when it detect its killed by a party, like it now gives 130 adena and evenly distribute to each player in a party.

    • JC says:

      On an important note, the system need to be able to distinguish between members in the same map or in an entirely different area, like afk in town. XP bonuses should only be applied to players in the same map or a certain area of cells.

      • Just like the old system, the new one takes into account proximity. Being in a party and having someone in town does nothing.

        Harder places have had their XP increased significantly. They also have more unique drops to increase incentive for hunting there (81-90 monsters drop a new 15% MR ring, 91-100 monsters drop unique earrings, Grave Guardians drop “perfect” gems which are a new tier above top and used in high end crafting).

        • Just a quick aside to explain some of the thought process behind these changes. This started as a discussion between Legends and I about how party XP worked and how we felt about it. We were in agreement we didn’t like how party hunting felt too penalized, and wanted players to feel like hunting with a friend is universally advantageous. To that end, we wanted to minimize actual coding changes and to start at the cleanest baseline possible. We removed the code that penalizes group size, and adjusted the “bonus” xp per party member back a bit.

          This is what we decided to start with, but not what we are committed to. When we have a playable version out, this is the kind of thing we will want feedback on. It will also be the kind of thing we gather hard data on. I do think we are committed to the idea that hunting as a group SHOULD result in you leveling faster than you would hunting solo. The flexible part though is how much faster that is. I personally expect we will need to tweak this system a few times, adding back some party size penalty, but I’d rather start with none to get a baseline feel for it.

  18. Puddles says:

    I don’t care how exp is done as long as its the same for everyone.

    All I heard was, “Everyone make mages and elves, find undead area with high repop speed, and turn undead everything.” I’m making one of those anyway. So, its all good. Could make a prince, get that princess set that gives tons of mana, grab a heal helm and unlimited heal undead to death.

    We all know this game will not be Lineage. Not even close. So I think a naming contest should be enacted. It really pissed me off when they came out with a new Battlestar Galactica. Starbuck a girl? Boomer a girl? Cylons looked like people? Commander Adama was a mexican that threw up on himself in an alley. Smack in the face to the old BSG.

    I think this server will be better than Lineage. Hence the need for a new name.

    I still know the biggest headache that will rise when the server comes out. And no one is talking about them. Illusionists. Wagging my finger like Manute Bol after a rafter height block on Michael Jordan.

    Good times to be had by all.

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